Curse

slasc · Jun 04, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Myself and a couple of my guildies keep trying to run Elona's Reach. This shouldn't be so hard. We've almost made it through before. There's just one problem : Every group we join up with is chalk full of idiots!

Taking henchmen on this mission seems kind of dumb (esp. with Alysia to put up with).

So, here are some pointers for those that run this mission, and the venting of a little frustration on my part.

#1.) Don't grab the first vision crystal and run straight to the hero (to start the intro cinematic) Here's what will happen. You will either die from the mino's and dune borrowers during your mad sprint, or you will simply aggro all of them so that when you do get there and run the cinematic, we will all be sucked in to die moments later (or even worse, the annoyance of having just the Hero die and the mission fail)

Result : restart

Assuming you and your group are smart enough to make it past the first minor hurdle, you essentially have two options of ways to go. Left or Right. They are both equally valid, and both lead to another Vision Crystal.
Which leads me to :

#2.) Let's say you go LEFT.
I have a simply piece of advice for you : DON'T USE THE BRIDGE.

I have yet to be in a group which decides TO USE the bridge and succesfully crosses it. It's a trap. Please, realize it's a trap. It's got splinter mines at both ends and a lot of mobs on the other side. They "mob" you. They block the bridge so you can't cross, and then everyone starts attacking the enchanted swords. So, the sage heals them all and no one kills the sage. If you have a bunch of warriors, they can't touch the sage. They can't REACH the sage. My advice here is simple. Don't use the bridge.

Which brings me to :

#3.) ALWAYS TARGET THE SAGE FIRST. The Sage is the healer. If you don't kill the sage, he (I'm assuming a "he" here) just heals everyone else. If only one person is on the sage, he'll everyone else AND himself. Please, kill the sage first. If the sage is down, the arcanist or a mob boss should probably be next as the bosses are often mesmers and I believe the arcanist to be a mesmer. (I hate fighting mesmers)

#4. ) TARGETING. I know, this should be known as a basic and essential concept by people who have made it this far in the game. However, why don't people ever listen? If there is only one target being called then everyone should be targeting it. If multiple people are calling targets, then everyone in the group should agree on who needs to call them in the future. In the meantime, pick the one it seems the most people are fighting. (And you should prioritize those targets based on which one is the most dangerous to the party as a whole. i.e. See above about Sage. I always target healers first and mesmers second. Elementalists are usually third. Why? lower armor since they are castors, and they are more dangerous if you leave them alone.)

#5. ) TIME. As most of you probably know, Elona's Reach is timed. Once your hit that first cinematic, you have 30 minutes. You can't split up your group, so you should definatly have a plan of action to solve the map quickly. I remember one group I was with where we almost made it. We were so close, and we had the final crystal. However, there was one mob group between us and the hero. What happens? Everyone stops down to fight it. We kill the mobs with ten seconds left. If we had ignored them and RAN to the end, we would of been FINE. (That group tried several more times, but we got overconfident and kept screwing up on minor things)

#6. ) TAKING ON MOBS. The advice here is simple. Don't take on too many mobs at once. I know you can't always control this, but when you facing three groups, pick just ONE of those groups to pull. I suggest pulling them into a trap if possible. But only take on 3, maybe max of 5 enemies at a time if you can control it at all. The less you take on, the faster they'll die.

#7. ) DON'T PANIC. The words from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy tell us this, and IT'S TRUE. If you're in a situation where your health is going down and you're about to die because all the mobs are on you, don't try to run. Take it like a man. (or maybe a woman if that be the case) Just don't pussy out. Those who run from battle to avoid death in this game are simply cowards. I could understand if you're the only monk and you're worried about rez. However, if you're the only monk, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH THE BATTLE ANYWAYS. Just don't pussy out. Remember, the longer you take damage before you die, the more likely your elementalist's AOE's (assuming you have an elementalist with AOEs) will do massive amounts of damage to the enemy that's killing you. So, STAND STILL AND TAKE IT. I can't tell you how many times I've seen meteor shower go to complete waste because some complete idiot decided he was at half health and therefore backing out of the battle. (when he was surrounded by the mobs.)

#8. ) ABOUT MONKS. Monks, you are HEALERS. You are IMPORTANT. Without you, the rest of us would just die a whole lot. However, you guys need to learn your post in battle. Stand back. Try not to draw ANY aggro, and don't fight. Not even if you can. Just Heal. Only fight if the enemies numbers are small and you can single handidly turn the tide. Learn reservation and the art of patience. Without you, the rest of us can't survive. It's all about teamwork. You heal, I fight. If I'm playing a monk and you're fighting, THEN we can swap roles. You obviously rolled the character, use it properly PLEASE.

I've gone through 8 here, so I guess I'll just try for 10.

#9. ) CALLING TARGETS. I've already talked about the importance of targeting priority and having a dedicated target caller. Let me give some pointers on WHO should be calling targets. There are two classes I believe are in the best position to call targets. Rangers and Warriors. I actually believe Warriors are the best for it. Warriors are in the fray. Warriors are taking damage and dealing damage while other keep them alive. The only problem with Warriors being the target callers is that they are usually not in a position to determine or call the most important targets. Here's where a ranger is suggested. In the instance of Elona's Reach, Rangers make the best target callers. Why? Because we are long ranged, not in the middle of the fray, and usually have the most time to discern where the evil bastard sage that we need to kill is. The warrior may already be fighting and fighting a losing battle because the sage is healing his target. Now, some may wonder, who not make any of the other classes the caller? It's simple : Monk - should be healing and focusing solely on the life of his/her own party; Mesmer - Should be casting enchantments all around. i.e. Backfire and Empathy on multiple targets. Spread around the dmg.; Elementalist - Should be looking for the tightest concentration of enemies and launching his/her meanest bag of tricks/AOE spell at them. (otherwise an elementalist would make a great targeter); Necro - I don't know much about this clas, honestly. So, I'm afraid I'm just going to slight all you necros out there and say "probably not good target caller" lol

So, finally :
#10. ) DEATH PENALTY (DP) DP sucks. I realize this. But, while it may be a good idea to restard a mission early on when your entire group has DP, it's generally a bad idea to quit out because just you have DP, or because you have a lot more than anyone else. That usually just means you've either got all the aggro (so don't carry the crystal*), or your character pretty much sucks and maybe you should try something else.

All that being said :
I don't know what the bonus is on here, guys. I'm "guessing" it has something to do with getting the ghostly priests to their "obelisks" But the point here is simple : FOCUS ON THE MISSION. Don't get side-tracked with stupid crap. If you want to do the bonus and the rest of the group doesn't, forget the bonus. You can run it again LATER. Some people just want to get through the mission itself first. If you have one crystal and a clear path to bring it back, send the least important (or fastest) character in your group to take it back and take the rest of the group to the next crystal. Don't waste time here, folks. Just get it done so people like me don't feel like coming on here to bitch anymore.

And, there you have it. My 10 pointers for Elona's Reach ( and a couple side tips as well ) May you have better luck at it than I have been. And may all your groups be reasonable instead of idiotic. (like the ones I find myself in have been)

*A note here : CARRYING THE VISION CRYSTAL MAKES ALL THE MOBS HATE YOU. I don't know if I can make it any more clear than that. Carry the crystal if you want to die a lot. If you get into battle, drop it. They won't pick it up and run off with it or something (thank god).

Minwanabi · Jun 04, 2005, 11:54 PM // 23:54

This is a good post, and I feel for you, I really do, but it saddens me, because this is like 3 pages of what SHOULD be common sense by the time you reach the desert. It's really a shame that someone could read this post, and say to themselves, "Oh, that explains it..."

Galatea Orea · Jun 05, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Excellent note about Healers. In general, if you don't attack, the mobs will not go for you. I tried this approach with my Healer all through the desert and found that even the Jade Scarabs would not attack me if I didn't attack them. I concentrated on keeping my team well and we got through.

dan325 · Jun 05, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I am one of the aforementioned "guildies" that Slasc refers to above. I would like to add that I have conducted a study on Guild Wars groups.

I have found -- and I have extensive emperical evidence to support my claim -- that the likelihood of success in difficult missions is indirectly proportional to the number of vulgar drawings made in the minimap window.

In other words, the people who are most likely to quit out the instant they get 15%dp, and the people who constantly leave the group and then wonder where everybody went, and the people who ignore called targets and wonder why the mob that is killing them keeps getting healed are *the same people* who draw penises in the minimap window. It's really amazing.

Icarium · Jun 05, 2005, 01:39 AM // 01:39

ha ha ! i doubt i could have said it better myself . . i entered a group for that mission yesterday, was about to go on my preamble about who does what/calls what and working as a cohesive unit . . .then i thought "this is a major mission, the PvE should have weeded out all the scrubs, and fools by sanctum cay, therfore ill not say anything" *sigh* i feel your pain as we were wiped out almost instantly upon the first cinematic. this thread should be stickied

also WARRIORS YOU ALONE DIDNT WIPE THAT LAST MOB OUT, YOUR NOT INVINCIBLE, DONT AGGRO THE WHOLE MAP!! please wait for casters to say there energy is back up, and casters be free with the ctrl + energy click so every one knows whats up energy wise

eA-Zaku · Jun 05, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

This is a good post, and I feel for you, I really do, but it saddens me, because this is like 3 pages of what SHOULD be common sense by the time you reach the desert. It's really a shame that someone could read this post, and say to themselves, "Oh, that explains it..."

I'm adding this to my bookmarks :/

Amnisac · Jun 05, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

The Bonus is bringing the ghostly guy from the start to the pther one at the other end of the mission. It's not hard, and I don't recomend doing it since your healers will be distracted healing the ghost.

Good guide though. I would think people might know this crap by now.

I'm not gloating or anything, but me and my guildies did this mission with 10 minutes to spare at the end, and NO one had a DP. So it is entirely possible to win this mission pretty easily.

slasc · Jun 05, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnisac

The Bonus is bringing the ghostly guy from the start to the pther one at the other end of the mission. It's not hard, and I don't recomend doing it since your healers will be distracted healing the ghost.

Good guide though. I would think people might know this crap by now.

I'm not gloating or anything, but me and my guildies did this mission with 10 minutes to spare at the end, and NO one had a DP. So it is entirely possible to win this mission pretty easily.

Mabye I should run it with you then.

Rajamic · Jun 05, 2005, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by slasc

#2.) Let's say you go LEFT.
I have a simply piece of advice for you : DON'T USE THE BRIDGE.

I have yet to be in a group which decides TO USE the bridge and succesfully crosses it. It's a trap. Please, realize it's a trap. It's got splinter mines at both ends and a lot of mobs on the other side. They "mob" you. They block the bridge so you can't cross, and then everyone starts attacking the enchanted swords. So, the sage heals them all and no one kills the sage. If you have a bunch of warriors, they can't touch the sage. They can't REACH the sage. My advice here is simple. Don't use the bridge.

Actually, I did watch my roommate on a team successfully run that bridge. They appeared to have a designated Splinter Mine puller who would uproot the mines and pull them out of the way. I was rather astonished.

They then proceeded to get that crystal, take the back hall towards the other crystal (past the one ghost) and get slaughtered by the boss + other roving band nearby. But oh well.

slasc · Jun 05, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

I'd just like to say that I finally made it through that god awful mission tonight.

I have one more pointer to add :

#11. ) The way we did it. A way that worked for us : GRAB BOTH CRYSTALS BEFORE HEADING BACK. It saves a bunch of time and it's a little easier to get through the mobs and then run like all hell back to the "hero".

Good luck, all.

Luggage · Jun 05, 2005, 08:55 AM // 08:55

I also got tired of bad pugs...

2nd try left crystal
2nd try, by the right crystal before the the boss wipes all
3nd try, right crystal after skill respec.

Keira Darkwind · Jun 05, 2005, 11:00 AM // 11:00

I play a pure healing monk and i find that sometimes the mobs will run right past my teammates and go right for me. That's without me touching them or aggroing them at all. I stay back out of battle, but sometimes there isn't anything I can do to avoid getting pounded on.

Cymmina · Jun 05, 2005, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnisac

The Bonus is bringing the ghostly guy from the start to the pther one at the other end of the mission.

No, it's not. The bonus is simply awakening the three priests. All you have to do is carry the crystal past their bones. That's it. As long as you remember to wake up the one right at the beginning, the other two are rediculously easy to awaken, as long as you get lucky on timing for the one on the far ridge.

I've successfully completed Elona Reach 4 times, 3 times with bonus. Once with 5 henchmen, twice with one other player and 4 henchmen, and once with 5 players and Alesia. I can't stress how important patience is in this mission. About 85% of the mobs can be avoided if you are willing to wait 10-15 seconds, while it takes roughly 60 seconds to take out the normal 4 pack (1 sage, 1 cursed, 2 swords).

We had to restart with the 5 players because one of them was a retarded necro that enjoyed bragging about how little he cared about having 60% DP. It was really too bad I couldn't tell Alesia not to res the nitwit. He would rush in and attack targets, even when we told him not to.

FYI, I recommend getting the right crystal first. When you pick up each crystal, more guys will instantly spawn. Since getting the right crystal is the trickier of the two, it will only get worse once you pick up a crystal. The right crystal has the advantage of getting the bonus done early, giving you two distractions to occupy those extra groups.

Straegen · Jun 05, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Pretty good post, but number 5 might get some people in trouble since 30 minutes is plenty of time to do this. Take your time and take mobs one at a time.

I would add the following:

#11 Warriors stay back and wait for the range guys to pull the mob. Running in pulls those roaming mobs that much quicker. Most groups can take the 3/4 critter mobs easily so the key is not to pull too much at once.

#12 Find out if any of the players going into the mission are there for the skill capture. Most of them will quit on you once they get their skill.

#13 You need two monks. If you get in a group of 3 Rangers and 2 Necros, quit and join a more balanced group.

#14 There is no shame in using the mage and healer henchman. In truth they aren't great bots, but they are better than many players. The extra fire damage will help and the healer will do a fair job keeping you alive unlike some monks. Plus no excuses about lag, missed a key, etc from the bots.

#15 Nothing in there removes enchantments. Use this to your advantage and run with your best enchantments.

xenoaroe · Jun 05, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

i know exactly what you are talking about, i ended up paying a r/me to solo it for me. I dunno how he did it, but it was worth the money to watch

Miss Selina · Jun 05, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

LOL...as a Me/N I would say that YOU, WARRIOR are nothing but a pawn in my world to block damage to me while I give you the tools to maximize your damage to the enemy. Without a caster in most instances later in the game you can wale on a foe for a good while before he goes down or you can have a caster throw Empathy and Backfire and BE DONE WITH IT. I agree that SOMEBODY should be calling targets. THIS IS IMPORTANT. It can save you from a mob and you can get out of trouble A LOT QUICKER if you are all on the same targets knocking them out one by one. With that I try to cover a lone Warrior when I can if he looks like he/she is in trouble. If the majority of the group is on another foe and the W is alone...PROBABLY cause he/she thinks that he can take on a mob by him/herself, I will do my best to raise some minions and ensure I have energy to keep throwing spells on that mob/foe that will make the warriors life easier and in effect get em outta trouble. NO DOUBT that warriors are tough buggers, but in this game you need a variety of skills in place. TBH I have been on MANY missions/quests with ONLY CASTERS no warriors or rangers and we cleaned house MOST of the time if everyone knew what they were doing. I mean you can shut down a mob by casting if you can get them in the right position. Case in point, Villany of Galrath..I SINGLE HANDIDLY took out EVERY level 20 on the hill at the end BY MYSELF while my comrads lie dead. I did it by positioning and making it hurt by attacking me. Course we lost the match cause our Healer Hench was 100 foot in the air stuck and I couldnt handle Galrath by myself...

Nightsky · Jun 05, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

I did Elona Reach with Henchmen. It was very easy and much better than with players. Most people seem to think that Henchmen suck but the truth is that they are very good. The healers are excellent, better than the average Monk and the Warriors are great tank, enough to take them over most W/Mo.

You should try to do Elona Reach with Henchmen. Its much better.

Cymmina · Jun 05, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straegen

#13 You need two monks.

No, you most certainly do not need two monks. If you think you do, then there is something wrong with your group and maybe you should not be giving out advice to people as to how to get through this mission. My R/Mo did the mission with 5 henchmen and only brought pacifism (for safe pulling) and rebirth (manipulating the henchies) for monk skills. A friend of mine got through it as a Me/R and 5 henchmen.

Multiple people with resurrect is always a good idea, regardless of mission. Having 2 monks in a mission scaled for 6 people is absolutley unnecessary, not to mention selfish. There aren't exactly enough monks out there for every group of 4 to have 2. Missions scaled for 8 people are a different story.

Straegen · Jun 06, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

No, you most certainly do not need two monks. If you think you do, then there is something wrong with your group and maybe you should not be giving out advice to people as to how to get through this mission. My R/Mo did the mission with 5 henchmen and only brought pacifism (for safe pulling) and rebirth (manipulating the henchies) for monk skills. A friend of mine got through it as a Me/R and 5 henchmen.

Most players can't beat that mission with 5 henchmen. If they could, they would since playing with other players is often very frustrating. It is great that you are an uber player that can do what most others can't or don't know how to do. For most people, a good mixed group with tactics over braun is their best chance of survival on that mission. Two monks just make that easier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymmina

Having 2 monks in a mission scaled for 6 people is absolutley unnecessary, not to mention selfish. There aren't exactly enough monks out there for every group of 4 to have 2. Missions scaled for 8 people are a different story.

We can definately agree to disagree. If you only have one heal source and that is a player, the first time he lags, messes up, gets his energy drained by an illusionist, dies from spammed earthquakes, etc in a fight could and likely will mean death to the party. Start a group of 5 players and slot one for monk, couple of Ele, a ranger or ele and maybe a warrior. That group already has more than enough damage to take out 1/2/3 mobs at a time. Add in a healer henchman and you have a better chance of not getting your group killed. Two sources of healing/protection isn't stupid... it is smart even if that means that one source is a henchman and the other is secondary healer.

IMO, A good group mix is 2 Monks (one as the healer henchman counts), 2 Eles (or some version of a mass damage doer), a Mesmer (or some interrupter such as a Ranger) and plug whatever you want in the last slot. That group assuming they know how to play is probably one of the most formidable PvE combos in the game. When things go good, the Ele just rip through the mob after mob. When things go bad (and they do), two monks will keep you alive a long time.

I would argue that if you think having two monks in a group is a bad thing that you are the one that shouldn't be giving out advice. Three is excessive, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with two and in fact that makes for a better group IMO.

Straegen · Jun 06, 2005, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by xenoaroe

i know exactly what you are talking about, i ended up paying a r/me to solo it for me. I dunno how he did it, but it was worth the money to watch

I actually would pay to see that myself. So much stuff cripples and knocks you down that it would be very hard to run through the mission and one player taking on the sage/illusionist pack would likely mean by the time he/she finished the sage the energy drains from the illusionists would leave the char without energy. Some of the bosses would be ugly as well.

He/she could avoid the monk boss which is the hardest to take down and I suppose with Me ability could regen the energy from drains. Would love to see the build that could solo it.

A lot of players were using the bug that allowed them to start the mission without the counter going off and the mobs roaming, but that wasn't impressive... that was cheating.